'Tucker' Carlson The Situation Room, for Wednesday, August 9, 2006
Guests: Rick Francona, Bill Press, Henry Rodriguez, Benjamin Netanyahu, David Ray Griffin
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Welcome to the show.
Big news out of the Middle East today, where Israel voted to send more ground troops even deeper into Lebanon. It‘s a last-ditch attempt to destroy Hezbollah before a cease-fire can be imposed...
CARLSON: Oliver Stone‘s movie “World Trade Center” opened today, and for once, Stone doesn‘t suggest some vast conspiracy. On the other hand, he doesn‘t have to, because there are plenty of people doing it for him. My next guest is one of the leading voices in the increasingly noisy movement that claims our own government orchestrated the attacks of September 11th.
David Ray Griffin is a theology professor and a member of the group Scholars for 9/11 Truth. He‘s also the author of the book, “Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action.” That book is published by the Presbyterian Church‘s publishing arm. Mr. Griffin joins us from Santa Barbara, California.
Mr. Griffin, thanks for coming on. You have no evidence that the government‘s behind 9/11, and I frankly think that‘s an awful thing to allege considering it‘s not true and you haven‘t proven that it is.
DAVID RAY GRIFFIN, AUTHOR: Well, these things have to be determined in terms of evidence. And if you read this book and you read my two previous books, “The New Pearl Harbor,” and then “The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions,” you will see there are literally dozens of reasons to disbelieve the official theory about 9/11.
I‘m not proposing a new conspiracy theory. I‘m rejecting the official conspiracy theory that we've been given by the government and the 9/11 Commission...
CARLSON: All right, but the implication...
GRIFFIN: ... and that has been used to justify all the activities that have been going on since 9/11.
CARLSON: Look, you don‘t like American foreign policy, that‘s fine. That‘s totally legitimate. I don‘t like American foreign policy most of the time. I get that, and I‘m not in my way questioning your right to complain about the actions of our government. I‘m merely saying it is wrong, blasphemous, and sinful for you to suggest, imply, or help other people come to the conclusion that the U.S. government killed 3,000 of its own citizens, because it didn't.
GRIFFIN: I thought the same thing for the first year and a half. You know, people will say, “Well, you‘re a conspiracy theorist, and so therefore you went looking for problems.” The first year and a half, I accepted the official theory and assumed it was blow back for American foreign policy.
And when somebody first suggested to me it was an inside job, I said, “Well, I didn't think the Bush administration—even the Bush administration would do such a heinous thing.” But then when I finally looked at the evidence, I saw that it was truly overwhelming.
CARLSON: OK. Let‘s get very specific. I wish we had more time, but we don‘t. You say six of the hijackers may still be alive. What‘s the evidence for that? Please tell me specifically why you believe six of the hijackers could be alive.
GRIFFIN: Well, this is one of the examples of one of the dozens of things the 9/11 Commission simply refused to investigate, even though this was reported by mainline sources in England. You had both the BBC and the “Telegraph” putting out stories—let‘s take the one about Waleed al-Shehri.
The 9/11 Commission speculates that he was one on Flight 11 who stabbed one of the flight attendants, and yet, several days after 9/11, he came on and announced to the world that he‘s still alive in Morocco where he‘s a pilot. We didn't get a word of that from the 9/11 Commission.
CARLSON: Well, you did not get a word of that from the 9/11 Commission, nor did you get a word of it from National Public Radio, the “New York Times,” the “Washington Post,” ABC news, NBC news, MSNBC. You are suggesting...
GRIFFIN: Exactly, but we did in papers in other countries.
CARLSON: Right, but, I mean, as someone who has been in journalism his whole adult life and grown up in a family of journalists, I can tell you people who point to the journalism of Great Britain are almost always pointing to journalism with very low standards.
Here‘s my obvious point. You‘re alleging not simply a cover-up by the U.S. government but by the entire American media. It‘s totally implausible. We would report that if it were true..
GRIFFIN: Tucker, not quite entirely. But let me give another example of a failure to mention. You mentioned Oliver Stone‘s movie. Although he does not get into the question of who was responsible, when people see this movie, they will see that these towers came down in what is close to classic controlled demolition, the kind that‘s called implosion, that is produced by explosives.
And first of all, steel frame high-rise buildings have never before in history come down because of fire or fire plus externally produced damage, such as airplane damage...
CARLSON: What about being hit by jumbo jets? Have they ever come down—no, because they've never been hit by jumbo jets before. It‘s not like there's a precedent for this.
GRIFFIN: No, no. And the empire—Tucker, the Empire State Building was by...
CARLSON: In World War II by a prop plane traveling at 1/8 the speed of these planes. Look, I mean, facts matter.
GRIFFIN: Tucker, the main point is that buildings like this have never come down because of externally produced damage. And furthermore, Building 7 was not hit by an airplane. And so, conveniently...
CARLSON: I know. And it came down. But Mr. Griffin, I‘m sorry...
GRIFFIN: Tucker, you know that the 9/11 Commission did not even mention in their 571-page report the fact that Building 7 collapsed.
CARLSON: I‘m fully aware of that. I've actually read a lot that you've written, and here‘s my bottom line point. I honestly wish—I‘m not trying to cut you off. I wish we had more time. You haven‘t proved the government‘s behind it, and I hope that our viewers will read what you've written, because I've read it. But unfortunately, we‘re out of time, and I appreciate your coming on.
GRIFFIN: Well, many people think otherwise, Tucker.
CARLSON: Apparently they do, and that‘s sad, as far as I‘m concerned.
But thank you, Mr. Griffin, for coming on. I appreciate it.
Speaking of conspiracies, it‘s been nearly four months and still no sign of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes‘ baby? Does that child actually exist? Well, new evidence suggests indeed she might. We‘ll show you when we come back.
That‘s it for us. Up next, “HARDBALL” with Chris Matthews. See you tomorrow.
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